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Sustainable Imagination | ¿É³ÖÐø»ÃÏë Yang Fudong Vs Li Zhenhua///The Frozen Canvas, Flowing Time Interview Interviewer: Li Zhenhua Editor: Jiang Di Li: This exhibition is called ¡°Sustainable Imagination,¡± Among its several threads, in my eyes, ¡°Strange Paradise¡± a very important work because of its long time-span. You began in 1997 and completed in 2002. Few artists in China¡¯s artistic circle adopt film as their media. For your part, what made you choose this as your material? What do you think such a kind of media can bring you? Y: Actually, it was an easy decision. I neither specifically chose film nor did I expect some specific result. I just wanted to create something after graduation. Creating with film alone was only a simple idea that came to me, I had no other intentions. Li: Before this film was finished, I saw another work of yours, it was a short named ¡°Backyard - Hey!¡± and made in 2000. In my opinion that short expresses, in many ways, the measure you went to for creating models and settings from various angles. However, when I saw ¡°Strange Paradise¡± I noticed that maybe I had made some wrong judgments; If ¡°Strange Paradise¡± were shot in 1997, what would its style be like? Y: In 1997, I was studying in college where what we learnt was not exactly based on our interests. Other sources drew my attention: contemporary art forms such as installation, performance art, ideas from abroad found in libraries and journals. They inspired me because they were new for me. However, if I made art for myself, I felt that films were exactly what I wanted to make. Though it would be a big project, I was aware, at least, of basic form my work would take: a standard film in 16mm, meaning I did not attempt to make a pure feature film at all. I¡¯d like to add some of my own ideas. Li: But why did you make such a long movie, or not calling it a movie, such a long work? Y: It was natural, very natural. Li: Isn¡¯t time a thread in your work? Y: It happens as it naturally progresses. According to my first idea, the work could be of some scale, which would have been a crazy blockbuster for me. After knowing what I should be doing, I made plans a 3-year-plan and a 5-year-plan. Li: You have talked about certain technique problems in your ¡°Strange Paradise.¡± What was the reason behind that? Y: I did do some similar work before. But I knew nearly nothing about shooting a movie. I had no relevant recollections or experience. My only experience was with in illusions and imagination. I figured out what I should do and how to carry things out just by imaging. But it doesn¡¯t matter. The real problem was that I was short of energy. But we were talking about technique¡ we used two cameras, whose settings were in inverse proportion. Shooting a film is a professional job and the cinematographer was taking charge for his first time. I neglected the matter of funding and when we shot, we set two different settings on two cameras because actually, we were not sure about the right format. Sometimes the equipment on the left or the right made it into the frame. Adding to that, there are many problems with focus as well. For example, if I were to prepare your close-up with the focus on the curtain, then your figure would be blurred while the curtain is clear. Li: This is a beginning for your personal style, wasn¡¯t it? Y: Actually, there is beauty in those mistakes, but I do not think they should be highlighted. Li: Then, what is the reason for the some blurring in ¡°Backyard - Hey!¡±? Y: The blurring in ¡°Backyard - Hey!¡± was not my fault. (laughing) The focus in ¡°Backyard - Hey!¡± is actually not so bad, but there were some technique problems. Originally, I treated it as no more than a short. Because of funding limitations, both workers and assistants were kept to the minimum. In the movie trade, the division of labor is clear, and everyone should abide by the rigid and strict rules and be responsible for their own tasks. But in my opinion, if you are bold enough, you can make films. Li: I heard that before you set about this film, you took classes at the Film University. What were you hoping to study? Y: As a matter of fact, it wasn¡¯t for further study--I only stayed there for about two weeks. In those days, I had nothing serious to do and wanted to take some lessons. It was just auditing classes. I lived in Wu Ershan¡¯s dormitory and sat in on some classes. It was a good time. But l had some disagreements with certain teachers¡¯ viewpoints which seemed very incredible, tricky and even deceitful. I thought that this was far from what I really wanted to do. The experiences and sensations I got from that period urged me to do something that I was dreaming of doing all the days. That would be much better than just listening to others. You listen to other people¡¯s ideas all day, but its not as good as trying it yourself once, at least putting some ideas into practice. In 30 or 50 days I would start on my own work. Li: Where did your source of funding come from then? Y: I sought for funds from various persons... seeking funds is embarrassing. Many people think shooting films is something unreliable and will consume labor and money. It¡¯s nearly impossible for friends refusing to help you if you truly have some family or some such troubles. But shooting videos is different. There are uncertainties both in whether you can complete it and whether you can repay the debt. That was the reality of the situation. Li: You did not start the short ¡°Backyard¡± until 1999, three years after that first film, is that true? Y: After I shot ¡°Strange Paradise,¡± I came across some living problems. I spent a lot of money while shooting ¡°Strange Paradise¡± but never finished it. I came across difficulties and financial problems. At that time, outside pressures were rather heavy, from my parents, family and just daily life. Sometimes, people need to make compromise in life. Difficulties will remain difficulties no matter how you persist. I had to give up and resolve the problems I was immediately facing. I took a job and made some money. After I could afford basic living expenses I found I was unreasonable with the idea that making money was none of my business. As I started to work, my life became better and better day by day. Earning money and putting some aside changed not only the financial situation of my life but also the spiritual. I found my former self was a ¡°parasitic¡± someone who always wanted to carry out their ideal at others¡¯ expense. I seldom worked before and so it did not annoy me. After I earned my first salary, some thousand Yuan at my job, I saw I could live by my own hands just like other common people. From then on, I became much more pragmatic. Li: In the beginning of ¡°Strange Heaven¡± you were concerned with the ¡°Ink-Wash Painting.¡± Why did you begin with this? Y: I used to paint oil paintings. At the time I has the simple idea of making a ¡°quasi-documentary¡±, I wanted to make a fake one. The education in my youth was so positive, no matter whether in school or on TV. Throughout my entire primary education, all my schooling was up to standard and beneficial. For example, the teacher would encourage students to study hard, teach students ¡°there is no royal road leading to knowledge,¡± from which we can benefit for our whole life. However, when I was young, my experiences called for totally different feelings. In the documentary a speech lasts for 4 or 5 minutes making comments on traditional Chinese paintings conveying a realistic mentality and living situation. In the episodes of the documentary, I found some things I was interested in. Maybe, to some extent it was like a professed love for what one actually fears. Perhaps sometimes it is not necessarily what you like. A lot of time it was like some groundless obsession. Li: You made a false documentary as your first attempt. What was your initial idea, and how did the idea affect the developing plots. Was there any relevance? Y: There is no necessary relevance, nor does it need it. I would like to retire the ideal of perfection in my documentary by referring to traditional Chinese paintings, to aesthetics, and creation itself. I would like to extract some common characters from them. After watching the documentary you put forward a question for yourself of what is perfect. The documentary is an agent leading to the sensation of discovering grace in every thing or even of being perfect. Perfection here can be the real one, a false one or just an opposite one. Li: From then on you deliberated on all kinds of problems. Before you actually made the film out there was a long period. Did you change your ideas during this long period? Y: I did not review the materials until the film was to be exhibited and several years passed since I laid it aside. When I reviewed my work, I felt that it seemed to be familiar and strange at the same time, like another person¡¯s work, but one in which you really understood the details. Another key point was the shooting angle. The whole film was seldom reedited after it was completed--except for an adjustment to its quality it is still the original 1997 version. In most occasions a work that is rediscovered several years after it was completed, would become totally different from the original one. But ¡°Stranger Paradise¡± is an exception. Li: From the aspect of editing and shooting, which is more relevant to ¡°Seven Intellectuals in the Bamboo Forest¡± your short film or ¡°Strange Paradise¡±? Y: In fact, the series ¡°Seven Intellectuals in the Bamboo Forest¡± in my opinion is not relevant with any specific work no matter if it is a short or long film. Certain ideas and conceptions are within, worthy of more consideration and thought. Li: In some critics¡¯ opinions, your works are called intellectual film, literary films or intellectual video art. What is your opinion about intellectuals? Y: ¡°Intellectual¡± is a broad concept. I can only understand it in general sense: simply, intellectuals are young men who had some education. To look at it in a humorous way, ¡°Strange Paradise¡± is similar to the books in a toilet. This kind of literary film is in the same position as those private books understanding sexual rights. Li: Since 1997, among your works, those made with film are better than those of other mediums. Do you know the reason? Y: I would like to explain it with a story: Long, long ago there was a child from a poor family. His parents sent him to learn handwriting. But the child did not work hard. Later on, his parents bought expensive rice paper for him. The child knew the value of the paper, so he became diligent in learning and practicing. As the child in this story, my use of film in my work is an extravagance for me. Film is also my preferential material because when I am using such a material I hear the sound of video camera and I am inspired. If I¡¯m filming with DV, I cannot catch that mentality and have different psychological feelings. Film, and in my eyes other machines, like human beings, are able to breathe. Digital has a cold lack of warmth, like some object. They are different in many ways. Y: I will as soon as possible. Because I still want to use film there will be some realistic problems. I have made a long-term plan. Li: How would you like to catalogue your works? We have talked much about them. As regards to this media and its techniques, you have adopted many measures of filmmaking. According to your initial ideas is what you made more like a movie, or a video? Li: What did your idiosyncrasies about materials and filmmaking measures result in? Y: For example, video made by DV cannot be shot in the same way as making a movie. That is reasonable. DV is a magnetized material that is inconvenient to cut and edit, but it provides some different shooting methods. If film is used in creating, one must work in another system. Ideas are the most important and decisive factor. Li: How do you treat Qiu Zhijie¡¯s critique of your works? Qiu mentioned you in some of his articles, the methods used in your video work. He pointed out some methods of people¡¯s poses and positions, such as somebody sitting besides a lotus flower pond, or someone looking off in the distance. How do you look upon these aesthetic repetitions? Y: His understanding is an initial feeling. He observed, first of all, a superficial level and then on a formal level. About the methods, his judgments are correct. However as for the images, I do not like to be catalogued into a type. An artistic work calls for thinking and contemplation. That is a matter of how to continue creating which is an important thing to me. It draws back to the question of ¡°parallel works.¡± Li: Is the production ¡°Strange Paradise¡± a snippet of memory from some period? Y: Not exactly. It is not a memory but an expression of sentiment about the mentality of a group of people. Li: Is it an account in your own words or an observation? Y: In fact, no standard description exists for it. There are mostly some narrations enumerated in it and things young people are eager to do. The narrator in this production is influenced by his surroundings and society, and he should face the impressions and discover resolutions. As a matter of fact, it is a common state including personal life moments and popular mentality during the transition from school to society. Li: The setting is in Hangzhou, correct? Y: Yes, because I had lived in Hangzhou for four years and I am familiar with the environment there. Many things there can inspire my sensations. As far as this point is concerned, the production ¡°Strange Paradise¡± includes my own feelings and emotions Li: Many artists¡¯ productions are usually of autobiographic style. This characteristic is hardly found in your works, in which there seems to be both your own words and your observations on some condition. Do you think you will maintain this in your productions in the future? In other words, what is the reason that you continue on in this manner? From ¡°Seven Intellectuals in Bamboo Forest¡± to ¡°Strange Paradise,¡± I would like to ask whether this state is necessary to maintain in later productions and why. Y: Description is good, as is close observation. Many elements of my work come from observations made in my own life. Actually its like what I have discussed with you previously, what I said about a frank attitude toward life. Li: Is it because of the repetition in daily life that parallelism inevitable? Y: It is unlikely. If you live a sensitive life, your ideas will change with the changing life and you will naturally adjust by yourself. Every artist¡¯s work will be affected by the outside world. Only the artist knows whether a work is a parallel production. Artist should not take leads from their surroundings and change his or her original ideas or views on their own works. On some occasions, visitors consider such a work as a good one. But in my eyes, it is unlikely to corresponding with the artist¡¯s real feelings. Li: Do you think ¡°Strange Paradise¡± is a good work? Y: In my opinion, it is good. For my personal love of it, this is the first thing I produced which I consider great. Perhaps, there is nothing to the quality of this production. Mostly, I chose it by myself, I loved it, and I carried it out. Li: That is the influence of the thing itself on you, isn¡¯t it? Y: Yes, you just want to do something and then you finish it. My main idea at that time was to make a movie and, indeed, I have it done. Li: Your earlier production, titled ¡°Silent for Three Months¡± was a performance piece, was it completed before your film obsession? Y: That was is in 1993. Li: Your works have an honest appeal, have your works always been so earnest? Y: I think creation in itself is an important and profound experience. What¡¯s more, I was in an appropriate state at that time. I did not make the production with a clear purpose; I was interested and tried it out. Gradually, I experienced many very delicate emotions. Many concepts slowly came into being as well as production was experience accumulated in those three months. Li: Was there any relationship between this experience and the creation of ¡°Strange Paradise?¡± If there is, what is the relationship? Y: If there is any relationship, according to what I have learnt it is the importance of perseverance. This is similar to long-distance running. At the last minute, perhaps you will consider the cost and overtake the other runners. Li: Can you still remember the times when you shooting ¡°Strange Paradise¡± and what were those several main themes? The themes include forging problems and the aesthetic matters that we discussed, the bi-directional aesthetics you have talked about, and the young men¡¯s mentality that you are concerned with. Y: It is really hard to say that those ideas belonged to that time; that is simple. It as a little like I idealized it. I wanted to make a film, and I had done it. At that time I summed up the ways in how to realize my ideals. Actually, there are two ways to pursue ideals: one is to treat it as a pure longing, like a moon hanging in the night which can be seen, but is out of touch forever; the other is working your hardest to carry it out. Li: When you were making this film, what were you choices in lens, were these all decided on the set? Y: At the time there were a portion decided on the spot, but there was even a work schedule and script of about several thousand characters. But now those are not necessary. Li: Were there many fortunate mistakes? Y: The ¡°fortunate mistake¡± is an ambiguous concept, and is mostly technique problems. I hardly call them beautiful. What you capture is different from what you visualized. When the results fell short of what we expected, I still found them to be interesting. While we were filming we also did some improvisation. Li: As China¡¯s contemporary art prospers, from your point of view does this work contain traces of China¡¯s modernity? Y£ºIt¡¯s impossible for me to judge. I can neither tell clearly what ¡°modernity¡± is nor what ¡°avant-garde¡± is. An excellent work will linger in your mind from time to time. Li: ¡°Refuse to Speak¡± is your performance art work from 1993. From 1997 on you started to made films, and since then I understand you now spend most of your time shooting films. What is your opinion on the transmission of medias and materiel during artistic creating? Y: It¡¯s true that as a media I like film. But this can explain creative media or its different stages. I direct films like I paint: each photo is like as a fixed part. Film records a period of time and freezes emotions onto this flowing media.
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